Is Pat Buchanan serious?

I'm with Buchanan, at least in part, because I’ve never understood why whom one has “descended from” should matter one twit in ones current existence. There is no doubt that if we go back far enough, most everyone on earth has “descended from” some sort of oppression, slavery, or indentured servitude. Why does it matter? And if it does, then doesn’t the fact that my ancestors played zero part in the slave trade account for anything? How about if my ancestors actually fought and died to end slavery? Doesn’t the fact that my ancestors may have paid the ultimate price to remove those chains trump the living-in-chains? This whole “descended from” argument is starting to get really annoying. I’m really sick of this meaningless bromide and the one-sided manner in which it’s applied.

However crazy his views are the guy seems to have a huge following. MSNBC loves the guy and constantly brings him on to spew his opinion(crazyness).

He is as serious as a heart attack, the tag teaming Clinton's opened the door and injected race baiting into the primaries when there was no need, and, every bigot is coming out on it with them. The one thing that can be said about good old, sour Pat is he has never once not showed his disdain for blacks, its how he keeps a job. But, its a shame that he does not know the history of the Irish in this country, even though it does seem the biggest, loudest, over the top uncouth, bigots on TV are of that descent. Too bad he and the other bigots who agree with him can't actually ever give a black person a break by merely being fair,maybe if he and the rest of them were of such good faith that we are all equal, there wouldn't be the huge disparities left with blacks on the bottom of every thing, and, a place for folks like good old boy Bill and Hillary Clinton to play the race card as easy as they have, and a public that has fallen for it of whom are the same ones who chime in there is no such thing as a race problem in the USA, it ended 40 years ago or so.

to Craig, you sound just as stupid and ignoring as Buchanan. There is nothing white America can do to actually erase all these years of pain and hurt that black people went through in this country. I do not know which planet Buchanan is living on to think that whites are the ones who are being victimize in white America. Buchanan needs to remember that, Black people did not choose to come to this country willingly. They were taking in chains from their country, bring them to the United States to work as slaves for over 400 years. Denied them their constitutional and human rights. working from sun up to sun dow, the masters beaten and raping our women. Do white people know what that feels like? The question that needs to be asked is, WOULD AMERICA HAVE BEEN AMERICA WITHOUT ITS BLACK (NEGRO) PEOPLE? WHITE AMERICA WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THE PAIN BLACK PEOPLE CONTINUE TO FEEL IN THIS COUNTRY.

Of course he is serious, I saw him tv a couple of weeks ago when he told a fellow female commentator (black) to shut up and he didn't apologize either. The other female commentator chimed and in and said she has never heard him talk to anyone that way before and that she was offended, the host said nothing. He is a racist they all are, they just like to be called one. No one sitting in place of priviledge likes to be reminded how they got there. enough said...

corrected Of course he is serious, I saw him tv a couple of weeks ago when he told a fellow female commentator (black) to shut up and he didn't apologize either. The other female commentator chimed in and said she has never heard him talk to anyone that way before and that she was offended, the host said nothing. He is a racist, they all are, they just don't like to be called one. No one sitting in place of priviledge likes to be reminded how they got there. enough said...

Manny wrote: “Black people did not choose to come to this country willingly” Neither did I, but I’m grateful everyday for whatever forces of history that got me here, and that is what I teach my children. I tell them you are one of the luckiest people on earth to be born in today’s America. I think that is part of the point Buchanan is trying to make; that regardless of history, if you had the opportunity to change history, eliminate slavery, and had the choice to be born into modern-day Africa or the US; what would you choose? And if you choose Africa; why are you still here? Manny wrote: “Do white people know what that feels like?” No we don’t, and neither do you. You have never been enslaved. And as a matter of fact, over 50% of Blacks in the US today are not descended from slaves, but came here voluntarily. Manny wrote: “Denied them their constitutional and human rights” No-one had any constitutional rights in Africa. America created the recognition of universal human rights that lead to not only the liberation of slaves in the US, but billions worldwide. And what about the black Africans that facilitated the slave trade making it possible in the first place? Doesn’t white Christian morality deserve it’s due in abolishing the universal acceptance of slavery that had gone on for thousands of years prior to the founding of America? Were it not for the incredible founding of this countries documents, and the subsequent deaths of hundreds of thousands of whites to liberate slaves, you may very well be living in the chains you pretend are still there. Enough already; I’ve never owned a slave, and you’ve never been one. The only place that slavery still exists, it is either in Africa or the Middle East, and the slave owners are Black or Arab. And America has done more to try to liberate the oppressed than an nation in history.

"Data from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics seems to contradict Buchanan's argument." Those statistics show that blacks are far more likely than whites to be victims of crime. Buchanan's statistics have also been challenged by the Southern Poverty Law Center, which points to data in the National Crime Victimization Survey. According to the data, 73 percent of white violent crime victims were attacked by whites, and 80 percent of black victims were targeted by blacks." This is an absolute bogus paragraph. Why insult the intelligence of your readers with specious arguments? First off, Buchanan argument isn't who is most likely to be a victim of crime, but who is most likely to be a victim of a crime perpetrated by a member of another race. Secondly, the first reference is not a statistical study of crime overall but only deals with one crime, homicide. Finally the second reference doesn't contradict Buchanan's point either; in fact one could argue that it supports him given article's statement that 20% of the time blacks commit crimes against whites and Buchanan's statement that blacks commit crimes at a rate 7 times that of whites. I know author is attempting to defend and uphold the honor of black people from the attacks of a perceived racist, but a defense built on an intellectual house of cards is no defense. Both we and the enemy know it isn't real and can be swept away in an instant.

Trudy... At least SOMEONE remembers what the "American" experience was like for the Irish and Italian, among other ethnic groups, in this country during the 19th century. They too, were ostracized. They were seen as "not white enough" especially Sicilian Italians. Thanks why comments from the likes of Ferraro and Buchanan amuse me. How soon they forget...

Craig, Don't get me wrong. I am proud to be an African American living in the United States of America. However, I do not forget that those who came before me have paid a price for my freedom. As a bi-racial man living in this country, I've been privilleged to go to many places. So, Yes, I am PROUD TO BE AN AFRICAN AMERICAN. You are right I do not know what it feels like to be a slave, because, luckily others have paid the price. But, I do know what it feels like to have been discriminate against because of the color of my skin. You are right about one thing, there were no constitutional or human rights in Africa. There wasn't any because there was no need for it. Because the white men invaded Africa there were no need for such a thing. And please JUST STOP YOUR B.S BECAUSE I AM SICK AND TIRED OF Y'ALL BLACK FOLKS FORGETTING WHERE Y'ALL FROM. KEEP IN MIND, ALL BLACK PEOPLE ARE DESCENDENT FROM AFRICA. WHETHER THEY ARE FROM THE ISLANDS, OR WEHEREVER. EDUCATE YOURSELF MY BROTHER.

WOW! Just when I thought we were making progress. Until these people die out, this is going to be an issue. I guess there is some hope.

Craig I agree with you for the most part. I personally do not understand why blacks born in america have not sat up and took notice of the fact that most africans who make it to this country not only do not socialize with black americans as a whole but also do not allow their children to socialize with the kids of black americans for the most part. I notice every morning on the subway how for the most part the american born kids have i-pods and other such entertainment while on their way to school. The africa kids congregate with each other and have their books open and are studying their lessons. Black americans are now outnumbered at the ivy league schools here in america by blacks of african and carribbean descent. These people who outnumber them in the universities also attended the same crime ridden inner-city schools and have obviously prospered from their educations. They (africans and haitians) are more likely to open small businesses and employ their own kind while the first thing that black americans will do when they finish school is go find some white owned company to get a borderline entry level position in, get a mortgage and a nice care loan and them tell the world that they have made it. It is sad that with the buying power of black americans there is not one black owned business in america that employs more than 500 blacks. But the first thing we scream about when the economy starts going bad is we will be the first to go when the layoffs start. Yes I do think it is time for some white person to step in and start asking some very difficult questions that blacks seem not to be able to ask themsleves. That question is..... what they hell is wrong with you and have you noticed that more people are getting tired of hearing your whining than are listening to your complaining? I honestly am tired of watching every Jan. 15th a few white politicians locked arm in arm with some black minister in some church rocking back and forth singing'"we shall overcome". The following month Feb. is proving to be the cruelest of them all. Nearly 90% of every story related to black history has to do with the slave trade. OK it happened. Get over it. Africans come from war torn countries where blacks murder blacks and do not give one damn about a camera being there filming them while they are doing it. Haitians drown trying to get here on rickty boats and they too come from a country that is not only black controlled but the black elite do not provide the poor with proper sanitation for their homes and neighborhoods. You and I here in america have heard gunfire in our neighborhoods but we sure as hell do not hear rocket propelled grenades exploding. Yes we hear about children getting hit in crossfire foolishness. But we do not hear about hands and arms being hacked off. Once they get here they seem to know the only way to go is up and they are proving it. We black americans have been here and for the last 40 years have seem to done excellent job of squandering the few government handouts that were given and still sit around for the most part bitching about what we as a whole do not have.

brucito, you have a right to your opinion, but, man, you sound just like pat buchanan and clarence thomas. 40 years of crumbs hardly make up for 400 years of oppression. and, just who is sitting around and complaining, most black people get up every day and go to work, try and live the lives of upstanding AMERICAN citizens, and, don't want any handouts, don't peddle drugs and don't go around shooting up their neighborhoods, all just to be treated fairly and have a shot at the so called American dream, why is that so much to ask of pat buchanan and the other nitwits who still have the hatred that he was taught as a kid by his parents and continues to spew? as for the immense success of all these immigrants, bully for them, but, at the end of the day, they came here by choice, and, the 40 years of crumbs and the doors being cracked a wee bit has made it easier for the, and, all the other immigrants by the nonstop beat downs of the native born blacks took and continue to take. and, if the great usa was so open to blacks, why is it that the quota for immigrants from sub-saharan africa is the lowest of any group? and that this debate is even going on in 2008 is yet another example of how race is still the biggest problem in this country, agree with pat buchanan or not, and the clinton's knew it would be just the thing to keep her in the race. america will destroy itself from within, the hatred and nonsense that coms out in every election shows it.

What an interesting discussion. First, for those of who you have a problem with being called racist or self-hating, please realize that when we speak of racism in this country, we are talking about a system that privileges one group (i.e. Whites) over others (i.e. people of Color). In that vein, I think we would all be hard-pressed to not see that America has been built on a legacy of racism. If your're still not convinced that it matters today, then I invite you to find PBS's amazing documentary "Race: The Power of an Illusion." In the second episode of the series, there is a discussion of wealth and how it is determined and accumulated in the land of equal opportunity (i.e. America). To make it plain, wealth in this country is found in land, property, and home ownership. Who owns homes, land, property? Well, let's just say that White people own more than any other racial group in the country. What say you...Other racial groups should work harder and save more? Well, watch the video and do a little reading. The video makes reference to the GI Bill that made provisions for home ownership for soldiers returning from war in the mid-1900's. That very GI Bill, which was sponsored by the US Government, explicitly stated that the benefit of aquiring a loan from the federal government was to be for white soldiers; Black soldiers were overtly denied access to the loan program. I think that's called affirmative action, folks. I think it could also be called racism--a system that privileges one group (i.e. White soldiers) over another (i.e. Black soldiers). Dial it forward a half century, and you find the federal government coming to the aid of Bear Stearnes while thousands of citizens struggle with the problem created by Bear Stearnes. Has anybody done any research on who works for Bear Stearnes and who was invested in Bear Stearnes. I would think it would be mostly white people, but I am willing to stand corrected. Also, I think a recent report in Essence magazine mentioned that Black women was the demographic group most adversely affected by the sub-prime mortgage debacle. The federal government has not rushed to the aid of the folks who are stymied by the housing loan crisis. I think this, too, could be called a form of affirmative action for Bear Stearnes. And, I think I smell a little racism and classism--privileging one group (i.e. Bear Stearnes and its investors) over another group (i.e. new Black women home owners). I'm just saying....

And, Pat Buchanan is right. White folks do need to step up to the plate and talk about race and racism. He seems to think that Black folk only want to talk about race. Wrong. White folks created this whole "race" thing. I would love to hear some white folks talking honestly about the history of race and racism in America. We cannot change what we don't acknowledge. If you are a white person, and you'd like to begin thinking about your whiteness... Please read A Race Is a Nice Thing to Have: A Guide to Being a White Person or Understanding the White People in Your Life by Dr. Janet E. Helms.

Thanks Everett..... well said.

Marc what I love most about this site is the fact that I know I am communicating with either other gay black americans or gay friendly black americans. I do not take offense at all your grouping me with Clarence Thomas or Pat Buchanan or (even though you did not) that even crueler embarrassment Alan Keyes. I have lived all over the country and saw the devestation of crack and AIDS on several of my friends. I am now seeing the obituary of the black community here in Harlem being written slowly but surely. Whites simply are not listening to the complaints of blacks anymore because now they point to immigrants both legal and illegal who come here and start business and have no problem working 18 to 20 hour days 7 days a week to make them successful. Poor arabs, koreans, and pakistanis know the easiest way to make a million dollars is to go into a black neighborhood, open a business and just sit back and wait for the customers to flood the store. There will not be any competition from a black american. The competition will come from one of their own kind, another immigrant. Yes many immigrants do owe a lot to the struggles that blacks went through but I found it interesting that you did not go into what happened to blacks along the way. Blacks have the wrong impression of how to make it here in this country. You can not have a situation where kids at age 6 or 7 living in the projects or low income housing can rap with the latest hip-hop song but can not say their ABC's with out hesitation or do simple math and then fault the schools that they are not learning. Homework not done in front of a TV or with blaring music from the latest gadget is the cure for this. Learning does not begin at 8am and end at 3pm 5 days a week. Case closed. You are correct on several things. I will go so far to say that no less than 90% of all black american households do not support criminals controlling the streets nor peddle drugs, snatch purses, or even do drugs. But the only way to save those who are going to be released from prison soon who ended up in there for not knowing any better will be black owned businesses who will offer them a second chance. Without them they are doomed to either return to prison or die trying to do the same non-productive things again. Our own employing our own is the only way to do it. Illegal immigrants now hold the jobs that these unfortunante men once held. Here in NYC if you do not speak spanish in most cases you may as well turn around and go back to doing whatever it was that you were doing before. And yes I do say that people like Buchanan are entitled to voice their opinion whether others like it or not. Sometimes it is nice to hear another point of view. It only helps to sharpen yours. Everything is not perfect here in america. We still absorb more immigrants legal and illegal than any other country in the world. And I think we black americans need to get more in tune with it and stop complaining about it. Since not enough computer techs were available they had to raise the nbr of indians that were being allowed to enter this country because blacks did not have the qualifications needed to fill the jobs being offered. As a black american I am embarrassed to have to admit that fact. There is a major problem here and we black folks, whether gay, strait or whatever know damm well what it is. Our priorities are in the wrong place. And I think that place is the constant desire to be entertained. It really shows in our youth. The future of balck america. Yes we do need a white person out there to rattle us every once in a while. Trust me this man, Mr. Buchanan sometimes scares me with the facts he makes me confront about my commmunity.

Gee! I wonder how long we will need to hear that blacks should be grateful to live in America. Sure our ancestors braved the waters of the Atlantic and came to America but most of us are just as Native American and European as we are African. It goes with the territory. I think the discussion continues because folks have forgotten the old tried and true definition of "African American." If I remember correctly being black rested on the provable point of having "one drop of black blood." At that rate, there are many successful "African Americans." Most of them talk consistently, generation after generation, about loving America and enjoying the benefits of living here. For instance, Abraham Lincoln, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, every person with red hair, most born in Southern Italy and well, almost everyone else. Before the "nays" begin, "troubled, tousled hair that won't lie down when combed betrays the characteristics of curly hair follicles, red hair like that of the Irish, Scottish and other mixed ethnic cultures shout the tell-tale signs of Moorish and Scandinavian blood. But wait...the Public Television Channel runs a wonderful documentary on tracing the DNA of world cultures. It proved that tested European men had a greater number of ancient African markers than present day African Americans. The Spaniards who lived side by side with Africans for hundreds of years join the people of India whose dark color speaks to the African presence in the development of the Indus Valley civilization. Most white men, it now seems, are the chief caretakers of the sacred African DNA. Prominent men in world history have rarely been distinguished by ethnicity. Those of us studying in American schools assumed that the Great Cast of World Characters were white. And then, we learned Peter the Great of Russia relied on a black General to lead his army. Queen Charlotte Sophia, grandmother by a couple of generations to Queen Elizabeth was a "blonde Negress," of German and African mixture. Oh, I could go on and on. Here's the point: For five years, I've shared with radio audiences that I could cure racism in one year. Sounds outlandish doesn't it? Here's how--Mr. Buchanan, cover your ears--just hire a small army of genealogists and DNA specialist to travel from one part of the world to the next. Allow them to test everyone in sight. Just as we have recently learned how a family tree study links Barack Obama to cousins, Presidents Bush & Bush, Brad Pitt and several other illustrious world personalities, it wouldn't take long before it would be proven that all of mankind is joined at the hip going back to Africa. So, I say, 'carry on, carry on," Mister Buchanan. Interview the Tang Skull and say it isn't true. You can try to hold back the dawn, Sir but the sun of Africa will forever find you.

Matema are you saying that the roots of oriental people are in Africa as well? Are you honestly asking us to believe that Peter the Great relied on a black general that you didn't name? Are you saying that Queen Elizabeth has a black blood line? Since your on a roll why not tell us about the black pope and the black jesus and the black general who saved Hitler's army at the battle of Stalingrad and Rush Limbaughs black children.

@ Brucito... Matema is correct. And please don't tell Me that you think Jesus wasn't Black? The general that he is referring to is Abram Hannibal. He is often referred to as "Peter's Negro" and "The Negro of Peter The Great." And although German, Queen Charlotte was directly descended from Margarita de Castro y Sousa, a member of the black branch of the Portuguese royal house. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/royalfamily.html

Brucito. Let me clarify some points for you. In reference to your response to Craig You said: I personally do not understand why blacks born in America have not sat up and took notice of the fact that most Africans who make it to this country not only do not socialize with black Americans as a whole but also do not allow their children to socialize with the kids of black Americans for the most part. ANSWER: Well let me explain that to you. While over in their country they have seen for DECADES how Blacks have been treated in America with slavery, segregation and other atrocities. So they figure stay away from them because they are cursed. Just like South Americans i.e. Mexicans most of them are taught in the home not to like Blacks and that was relevant when former Pres Vincente Fox gave a state of the country address to the Mexican people and made mention of Blacks in a negative light, So they feel to stay away from them puts them in a better light with the WHITE man. Not really. You said: I notice every morning on the subway how for the most part the American born kids have i-pods and other such entertainment while on their way to school. The Africa kids congregate with each other and have their books open and are studying their lessons. Black Americans are now outnumbered at the Ivy League schools here in America by blacks of African and Caribbean descent. These people who outnumber them in the universities also attended the same crime ridden inner-city schools and have obviously prospered from their educations. ANSWER: Well first of all stop looking at the small percentages of blacks that do that. That’s the problem with us. Also most inner-city schools are not “CRIME RIDDEN” you’re categorizing that’s the same things the WHITE MEDIA does. Why a lot of Blacks do not get into Ivy League is up to the individual’s learning curve. But as long as they get that paper. That is all that matters is HIGHER LEARNING. And there are many of Blacks who have prospered from City College of NY and not Columbia Univ. You said: They (Africans and Haitians) are more likely to open small businesses and employ their own kind while the first thing that black Americans will do when they finish school is go find some white owned company to get a borderline entry level position in, get a mortgage and a nice car loan and them tell the world that they have made it. It is sad that with the buying power of black Americans there is not one black owned business in America that employs more than 500 blacks. But the first thing we scream about when the economy starts going bad is we will be the first to go when the layoffs start. ANSWER: Johnson & Johnson and employs more than 500 Blacks and so does Earl Graves and his company amongst others. Also name me some Haitian and African businesses that employs 500 of their own????? You won’t find not a ONE! As for the economy is it’s AWFUL and I have been with my employer for 22 years. WHY because I work hard, apply myself and go “ABOVE AND BEYOND” the call to ensure my job security as many Black folks do as well. Once again STOP CATAGORIZING! Read Ebony every year they show the professional Blacks under the age of 40 and they’’re in every profession. Also keep in mind a lot of Black business are small business so they don’t employ that many and we have to diversify such as white owned business as well You said: Yes I do think it is time for some white person to step in and start asking some very difficult questions that blacks seem not to be able to ask themselves. That question is..... What the hell is wrong with you and have you noticed that more people are getting tired of hearing your whining than are listening to your complaining? ANSWER: NO I don’t think they should. They need to ask themselves “Why do I feel I am superior to these people?” Why do I feel the need to keep them psychologically SURPRESSED! You’re looking at one side of Blacks in this country. There are far more that are out there making a difference unfortunately the WHITE BASED Media refuses for us to see it. That’s why it pays to read Ebony magazine and other positive publications. Pat Buchanan anytime he can tell a Black professional WOMAN to shut up on National TV and not apologize?????? And you feel he’s right NO HE’S PREJUDICE! You said: I honestly am tired of watching every Jan. 15th a few white politicians locked arm in arm with some black minister in some church rocking back and forth singing '"we shall overcome". ANSWER: Well so is I Why because racism is so embedded in our society it will never overcome! You said: The following month Feb. is proving to be the cruelest of them all. Nearly 90% of every story related to black history has to do with the slave trade. OK it happened. Get over it. Africans come from war torn countries where blacks murder blacks and do not give one damn about a camera being there filming them while they are doing it. Haitians drown trying to get here on rickety boats and they too come from a country that is not only black controlled but the black elite do not provide the poor with proper sanitation for their homes and neighborhoods. ANSWER: Get over it???????? Have you lost your DAMN mind? NEVER FORGET! Would you tell Jews to forget the Holocaust???? HELL NO you won’t that is a part of American History as well as BLACK HISTORY remember to know where your people come from and how much we have to work hard to strengthen our communities to stay productive. What happened in Africa and Haiti was the result of them treating each other dirty due to skin tone and or different tribal sects. It has nothing to do with American Blacks You said: You and I here in America have heard gunfire in our neighborhoods but we sure as hell do not hear rocket propelled grenades exploding. Yes we hear about children getting hit in crossfire foolishness. But we do not hear about hands and arms being hacked off. ANSWER: No we don’t but getting caught in crossfire is worse than getting a limb hacked off. Why? Because they still have LIFE caught in the crossfire you don’t it’s DEATH! You said: Once they get here they seem to know the only way to go is up and they are proving it. We black Americans have been here and for the last 40 years have seem to done excellent job of squandering the few government handouts that were given and still sit around for the most part bitching about what we as a whole do not have. ANSWER: Obviously Boo Boo stop watching sports and music videos they are entertaining. But check these sites out http://www.black-collegian.com/issues/30thAnn/successcareer2001-30th.shtml And also try cop www.ebony/jet.com and or www.blackenterprise.com There are many successful Blacks out there stop watching MSNBC, CNN, FOX and let us all read and know about these fantastic wonderful professional African Americans. Pat Buchanan is a prejudice opportunist who can twist Black folks minds and he almost had yours. Don’t allow him to do that. Just look and research how Black professionals that are out there with, or without an Ivy League education! We unify for in UNITY there is STRENGTH believe that! I Bid you PEACE, and God’s Love from one brother to another Selah Chris

Verb I can not thank you enough for your comments. I woke up this morning and learned something new. Even though I personally do not think that jesus was black we are all entitled to our opinions. Chris I thank you too for your comments. Out of a nation of 40 million black people there are at least 2 companies that...........well I am not going to go there but at least there are two. That does amount to something. I knew that here and there a few do employ between 20 and 100. As you and hopefully the rest of black america know it is the small businesses that make up the backbone of the country. It is also the small business owners that make up the backbone of any community and there is where the problem lies in the black communities. Here is Harlem damn near all of them have been shuttered. What I am disappointed in is that you did not make any reference to the most pressing problem soon to explode in the black community. What to do with the ones who are getting out of incarceration with very limited job skills and will carry the convict label with them for the rest of their lives. I personally think that it is time to start rallying the masses of black folks on this. It is nice to hear from someone else who too is tired of seeing the singin and arm locking and rocking back and forth every Jan.15th. Or at least that is what is sounded like what you said. I honestly can not name the majority of the black entertainers who appear in magazines because I disdain hip-hop for the negative cultural influence that is has on our youth. As for sports it is nice to see here lately that the off season buffoonery that seemed to come every year from these newly minted fresh out of the ghetto millionaires has subsided considerably. (Enough said there. I dont want to jinx a positive thing.) Just as I told Marc regarding his response to my comments I am now telling you. I do not feel "put in my place" at all. I feel that I have been educated in a very positive way. You took the time to decipher and respond to what you felt needed to be responded to and did so. Whether you did it out of the need to educate or out of anger does not matter. That is why I really love this site. That is also why I feel that people like Pat Buchanan can have an unintentional positive effect by saying things some people do not want to hear. Look at what it lead to. Black gay or gay friendly people showing that we are all not like minded and can discuss things without calling for each others head on a platter.

Good Morning Brucito, My brotha. Let me first say that it's refreshing to see that we can converse with different view points without name calling. Now to answer this question you did pose You said: What to do with the ones who are getting out of incarceration with very limited job skills and will carry the convict label with them for the rest of their lives. ANSWER: Well me being a native New Yorker (Bkyln) but is now living in Delaware. There is a program in Philadelphia that addresses just that. click this link below http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080222_Nutter_taps_ex-con_for_prisoner_re-entry_office.html It's a DAMN GOOD start! Now if NYC and Bloomberg would agree to do the same, or one of the Borough Presidents preferrably (Manhattan, or Brooklyn)would be great. Bringing the dialog is great but as for Buchanan I still say HELL NO!!! And oh yeah I'm fam also! Have a Great and Productive day! Chris

I enjoyed the discussion (except for the couple of insults), and I want to share a quick side note; I originally found this story and was the first to comment thru a Google news search. When I posted the comment I knew absolutely nothing about this site. Thus, when I came back this morning, imagine my amazement that here I am, (a Midwest, middle-aged, hetero, suburban white guy) having a conversation with Gay Blacks. Wow! This is a truly astonishing age in which we live! Given my lifestyle, I would never have had the privilege of gaining such a diverse perspective in such an intimate way. God Bless America! And I guess we have to thank Al Gore too (for inventing the internet) Now I guess I'll have to keep checking back in from time to time. This was great. Thanks.

Thank God most whites do not support or share Mr. Bucanon views . Who as An Irish Catholic was not welcomed to all the white places of power in his lifetime in the USA or England.Of course he could have easliy passed as long as none of his family visited.How soon they forget.But I understand at his age the world he knew and loved what ists problems and plaudits no longer exists. Mr. Bucanon would rather live in the psaa then embrace the future.

Chris again I thank you. I checked out the link you included. Here in NYC there is a project called Exodus that helps ex-cons get employed. I did not find it odd at all that NBC News aired on a Saturday morning (this past Saturday as a matter of fact). That is one of the lowest rated time slots available but I know I need not tell you that. Two years ago I tried getting a job with them as a job counselor but their budget for the following year would not have included me so I had to leave it alone. I also knew about the city of Newark and their hiring of ex-cons for the sanitation department. If I am not mistaken Baltimore does the same thing. All is not lost but a helluva lot more can and hopefully will be done. Thanks again. I keep clicking on your author profile and nothing is coming up but a blank page. I would like to learn more. Is it my computer or what? I keep refreshing the page and it goes strait to google. What's up with that?

Well knock me on the head with a 2X4. I never realized that this was a gay site! The speech Obama gave was an opening to have a discussion on race. The rantings of Buchanan is not. Therefore, this agreement that some of you have with Buchanan seems to be misplaced. His point was that African-Americans should be grateful for all the things white americans have done for them but get over (as Brucito posits) what was done to them. He did not provide any sort of thoughtful analysis on race relations in America other than we should be grateful. That is what you are agreeing with. All of this woe about the black community's problem are completely separate from what the article is about. That's a good thing. But, Pat Buchanan offered no insight and gets no accolades from me. I'm still tripping, is this really a gay site? I thought it was similar to other sites such as blackamericaweb. Damn.

This is a news site for Black Americans, not just gays. I can't speak for all gays that post here, but I do so as I enjoy Keith Boykin's (the editor) endeavors.

Brucito, SORRY bruh I don't have a profile on here. You can email me if you like at chriscapers@gmail.com I would gladly continue to converse with you either there or here!

I am actually glad that Mr. Buchanan said what he said, not because I agree with what he said but it sheds light on how a majority of white America feels. I know because I have these conversations with white America everyday. White America genuinely feels that that Black America has the same advantages if not more than they do. White America does not understand the impact that being enslaved for 400 years, having the family system torn apart, enduring segregation, and overt racism has on a people as a whole. White America sees that slavery ended over a hundred years ago and should not have an effect now. White America has an image in it’s head that the majority of black people in America are lazy, thugs, criminals, who live off of welfare because it’s easy. So I do think there should be a two way conversation about race In America, maybe it will help to change this skewed perception. America can’t change its past, but we can learn from it. Until we change these perceptions, our future will look just like today does. I for one have a hope for a better future.

Craig I am sure you got an eyeful here. But you also learned something that I bet you knew probably by now existed but never really gave much thought. Black gay men and women are a very intelligent but nearly invisible part of black america. Since this is the first time you have ever engaged in a conversation with a black gay person I must point out that these are just my feelings that you are reading here. I do not speak for the entire community and for that matter no one does. That even appiles to your community as well, John McCain and Hillary and Pat are all white.....well you understand. I do think we (or at least those who comment on most of the sites aimed at us in particular) see things for what they are. It is unfortunante that it wasn't until the AIDS crisis hit the hetrosexual black community ( even though I personally find it hard to beleieve that it wasn't there all along) with the equivalent of a nuclear blast for the black clergy to to realize we (black folks in america)were all in this together whether we liked it or not. And yes I do think AIDS is a man-made diesase. Case closed discussion over. In my mind it is etched in granite. Look at who it effected first and the brain washing that was being put out in the public before it became obvious that no one was immune from it. Those who "followed Christ" or should I say those of us regardless of creed, color or religion.........well I am sure you get my drift. Again Craig it was nice to hear from a white male in middle america and please stop by the site from time to time and voice your opinion. I personally find it hard to believe that you agree with everything the Rev. Robertson, Oral Roberts or the like have to say (sorry I couldn't resist that one) and I also don't think ol' Pat B. does s either. Take care and thanks for your comments. You made it even more interesting.

Brucito wrote: “Black gay men and women are a very intelligent but nearly invisible part of black america.” While I’ve never doubted the truth of that statement; what did surprise me was the more-or-less fair-minded level of discourse I received. Not, because of any pre-conceived notions of “Blacks” or “Gays”, but because of my experience with Left-leaning or Democrat-leaning online communities. My experience in conversing with “typical” Left-leaning online communities is that when I attempt civil discourse, I get savagely attacked, and my arguments are ignored. Here, I was treated with civility (for the most part.) So if I may generalize; I found thru this experience that Black-Gays are far more reasonable than the average white-hetero-lefty.  So while I like to think that I hold no negative stereotypes based on race, gender or sexuality, because these attributes are irrelevant as to ones character; I do have prejudicial inclinations regarding ones political choices, since ones politics are a reflection of ones deeply held values, and therefore, ones character. Brucito wrote: “I personally find it hard to believe that you agree with everything the Rev. Robertson, Oral Roberts or the like have to say (sorry I couldn't resist that one)” I probably agree very little with those folks. Although, I was raised as a Christian, I’m now more of a Secular-Humanist. Brucito wrote: “And yes I do think AIDS is a man-made diesase. Case closed discussion over. In my mind it is etched in granite.” I must say, this comment blew me away. You seem like a thoughtful and open-minded person, but, “Case closed discussion over” is not an argument, or evidence of an open mind. I’ve seen these accusations thrown around before, but I’ve never seen any evidence to support it. It’s analogous to when whites used to justify slavery because they claimed “Blacks are inferior” without any evidence to support such a ludicrous claim; similarly, it’s dangerous and irresponsible to be promoting and teaching our children such nonsense about AIDS. It only promotes anger, division, strife and lack of respect for facts, evidence, logic and the scientific-method generally. Further, by promoting such falsehoods you stifle legitimate efforts at prevention and treatment based on real facts and science. Unfounded conspiracy theories about AIDS can be even more destructive than the disease itself; it stirs the darkest elements in our souls, and does nothing to address real issues.

Craig as I said my belief that AIDS is a man made disease is etched in stone. You call it a falsehood but that remains to be proven. Well here is why I believe it. History has shown what man will do to man (race, creed, or religion be damned) when his power can go unchecked at the time that he is committing his atrocities. Man has proven that when it comes to killing other humans that stand in the way of his beliefs (be it religious, racial, or just strait out being evil to prove his power)he can do it on a GRAND SCALE. Romans cheered as christians were fed to lions. The crusades nor spanish inquisitions show very much tolerance to other men either. The british and american governments gave the indians of native american tribes smallpox laced blankets. And let's not forget the holoucast, (even though the wealthy jews could have done a whole lot more to help the poorer jews who were the ones who bore the brunt of it). But the one that stay etched in my mind and also influences my belief for the most part was the Tuskeegee experiment with syphlis injected into unsuspecting black men. An experiment needed to be conducted to find and study the effects of a devestating disease on man and it was conducted. Case closed. During the anthrazx scare in Washington D.C. a mormon biologist was suspected by the F.B.I. An investigation proved that he not only had he stolen a VERY LETHAL germ out of the laboratory that he was working for and given it to the white South Africans military years before but he was also helping them develop a "black bomb that woud halt anti-apartheid". In other words a disease that would effect only blacks. I honestly wish this was false an unproven but it is TRUE and it has been proven. The facts do support it. As I said the segment aired a few years back on 60 minutes. A mormon, the same faith that Mitt Romney represents did do that.. Now on with my theory. I personally have no doubt that during and after the turmoil of the 60's (the civil rights movement, the hippies, and so forth), the 70's (the gay rights marches, inter-racial dating exploding all over TV and the country still in turmoil after the watergate scandal :Jimmy Carter unable to get things under control and crime exploding everywhere) a few sick minds out there knew that the best way to get rid of entire populations quietly before people took notice and action to counter it was through disease. It was very effective in the past and with the way their targeted groups were acting and obviously not unified they could do it and change the face of an entire populace before their targets realized what was going on. There would be no immediate unified response and by the time they did get together with a response damn near irreversible damage had been achieved. The effects being homosexuals, the homeless and in many case black neighborhoods would almost vanish or their lifestyles would be change so much so that they may as will be considered lower class christians by the time it is all over. It was a chance meeting between two doctors who happened to mention at a gathering that both had gay patients whose immune systems had deteriorated and they both (their patients) had died. That, and that alone, started the suspicion that an epidemic might be at hand. Yes you can still have sex but if you do not do it with a condom you will lie in bed with your partner, whether strait or gay, wondering what the hell might this person has transmitted to me. After enough times one might just conclude that going out and having sex, even though both are willing participants, is not worth the psychological feelings that come afterwards. The only way out of it would be to get a wife....well you know where this is going. If one does not develop a wholesome lifestyle based on the beliefs of the respected bibles of the jew, hindu, christian or muslim and so forth and so on, one will be doomed to the wrath of god. Sound familiar? Man has devised over the centuries so many ways to make other men bow to his will supposedly in the name of god that I find this scenario very easy to believe. And I am also going to add this tidbit about me. I am not a college graduate. However I have lived all over the country and I saw first hand what crime, sex, drugs, disease, and finally racial and religious ignorance did cause. I will conclude with this: the mormon who was helping the south africans develop their "black bomb" supposedly committed suicide before he could be questioned about the anthrax mailings that occured in Washington, D.C. I personally think that he was murdered. But hey, I only went to an inner city community college in Baltimore for two semesters and did not earn a degree. What the hell could I possibly be able figure out that amounts to anything tangible? Your having children makes me understand why you would say that conclusions like mine only stifles progress on the disease. However you statement also translates that because one may think this this is why there is not going to be an all out war to wipe out this disease. Depending which side you are on it could be either the worst or the best thing that could have come along for society as a whole. Think about it. Nice chatting with you and please feel free to respond.

To all inquiring minds that want to know that mormon doctors name in the article above was Dr. Larry C. Ford.

The lack of historical information that white racists and their people of color (POC) supporters have is really stunning. There can never be an honest conversation that white America can have with Black people or any other people of color about the substance of the contribution and the level of debt that white America has been afforded from Black, brown and yellow labor, both free and indentured. From day one, America's freedom-the same freedom white Americans enjoy and feel entitled to- was paid for by the labor of people of color. Tobacco was used to fund the American Revolution, resources used as collateral for loans paid to American radicals (the framers) by the French to fund the war, the same war that got you freed from the Brits in the first place (just so you didn't have to pay taxes). Guess who was working the tobacco fields at the time, both as slaves and indentured servants? We won't even discuss Blacks contributions, the Black blood spilled, in the American Revolution war and every American war ever fought to gain and maintain its freedom. In our patriotism and service to maintain the freedom of this country, Black folks have comprised over 30% of the military for over 18 years, guess what happens if we leave this oh so strained military? History lesson number two: guess what fueled the rapid growth and expansion of the US colonies, including the funding for the Louisiana Purchase? Slave labor. What were our number one, two and three US trade exports for its first three centuries of independence? Cotton, Tobacco and Sugar Cane, all of which was primarily farmed by Black labor, both free and slave waged. Ask China and India how quickly they could become superpowers off 300 plus years of free labor (they're doing a pretty impressive job with sweatshop labor as is, don't cha think)? And it's not only Blacks, Chinese immigrants led by white promises of gold riches signed their lives away, locked into slave wage contracts that led to them building the train tracks that established the first transnational railroad system in this nation. The West Coast ports that allowed the growth of trade to flourish throughout the California, Washington and Oregon coasts, Brown and yellow folks built those. The entire fruit and wine farming system in California and Arizona is dependent on brown labor, has been for decades if not centuries. I mean when one gets right down to it, as anti-racist professor Tim Wise asks, what major American infrastructures have whites built (not designed-I said built) without either their money or the actual labor coming off the exploited sweat of people of color? Name a system? Other than the urban skyscrapers and subway systems built by racists unions who kept the Irish and people of color locked out, I can think of very few. The conspicuous consumption that everyone keeps slamming Black folks for? Kept the economy afloat or helped it back to its feet in every recession over the last 20 years. We were in a recession after 9-11 before sub-prime loans suddenly became easier to get and the economy was resurrected by the housing market. Credit debt funds the US economy, good ol fashion spending, and has allowed people-Black and White-to believe that wages haven't remained stagnant. Black folks disproportionately pay the high interests rates and service fees that has kept credit card companies and banks in the black. Wanna take a guess at what America's leading cultural exports are? Even Harvard University predicted this in the early 1970's, say it with me: Black folks. Cultural commodities that Americans trade to other countries are almost exclusively Black cultural aesthetics from music to fashion. Even TV, damn, ya'll TV. All major network TV companies (Fox, UPN, WB, etc.) that have been birthed since the big three were launched with content targeting which market? Black folks with dollars to burn. Want to really see a real depression, have Black folks stop spending conspicuously, stop allowing themselves to be exploited by banks, stop being used by marketers to launch new product or resurrect old product, stop paying credit card companies the high interest rates, stop eating fast food, stop drinking soda pop, stop taking payday loans, stop using check cashing places, stop supporting carry-outs, stop supporting bodegas and corner stores; let Black people actually do what is really healthy for us both physically and financially and watch this economic system falter, if not simply fall apart. American capitalism has and will always depend on poor people of color, get into it and get the fuck off our backs. It's not like you can afford for Blacks to get it all the way together (we're halfway there and it has scared the powerful into cutting off avenues for escape-tried to get a private student loan for college lately?). You better hope these systems can get Latinos and new African immigrants to be as good of a foil or patsy as we've been to these systems. As good as whites have supposedly been to Blacks, trust and believe there isn't a system in this country that hasn't benefited from our propensity for turning the other cheek and our willingness to open our wallets. More than your freedoms, whites owe Blacks your privilege. We got you, we've had your back for years. So, on the real, why are YOU always bitching?

Mr. Gibson you mentioned something I feel is long over due to be addressed. To look at all of the evening news channels and their coverage of the war in Iraq you honestly would think that no blacks of american descent were over there in that war. We are nearly invisible. Have you seen the military channel on cable recently? Last night (saturday evening when the ratings are the lowest for all network and cable news broadcasts) they were showing the latest outbreak where a lot of the soldiers in the Iraqi army were saying the hell with this and laying down their arms and stopped fighting. The black soldier that somehow made it in front of the camera and allowed to speak for all of 10 or 11 seconds had such a heavy carribbean accident that I could not understand what he was trying to say. As far as NYC goes people who descended from the carribbean and the dominican republican have a higher representation in the army nowadays than native born american blacks. Why is that? Because they will get their citizenship faster than they would the old fashion way. Remember Bush got no support from his european counterparts for that war AT ALL so the administration had to come up with some creative ways to entice others to join in this thinly disguised crusade. Every country in central america and the carribbean (except Cuba)contributed troops because the offer of a lowered interest rate on their outstanding debts and raised quotas as to how many of their citizens would be allowed to enter the U.S. was an offer they could not pass up. When word reached the poor of these countries the flood gates at the border were burst open. I don't know where you live but in most major cities now (as a matter of fact I am going to say in ALL MAJOR cities and TOWNS) in the united states there has been such a heavy influx of latinos that it honestly looks more like an occupation has taken place. Ol' brother Buchanan here said a few years back (and I am sure recently too) that there are in terms of military strength over 75 battallion size divisions of illegal latinos in the U.S. at this time. Reading your comment made me stop to think that if black people were to stop paying the credit card companies high interest rates and so forth and so on with a few other things you said their replacements (the latinos) would take up the slack in a heartbeat. If you look across the country can you name one city that does not have a local (not cable) channel that is aimed at a spanish speaking audience?. Go ahead. I am listening. No you can't, can you. I honetly think that by doing that we would only expedite our immenent demise. (see comment above yours for the explanation of that) The white soldier coming home from that war has little to brag about whether he admits it or not. Fuel for him or her is $4.00 a gallon. The interest rate they will recieve from the V.A. not withstanding he still will not be able to afford a mortgage, car and insurance payments, food and utilities and so forth without feeling the pain that we too face. He too (the poorer whites here in the U.S.) is being used by the WHITE ELITE in a way that only shows how effective the brainwashing of the 80's and 90's were on his mentallty. If they complain about their stagmant living conditions that they too are living in they will be called the L word. Liberal. They would rather work 6 damn jobs a week if they could rather than take to the streets and protest about these conditions. What does that tell you?

Brucito, First, you can’t prove a negative. Meaning; no conspiracy theory can be proven false. By their very nature, these conspiracies rely on innuendo, missing-links and vagaries that simply can’t be un-proven. Thus, the basic rules of logic dictate that it is he who puts forth something to be true, is required to provide the basis for that truth. If skeptics were required to disprove every crazy conspiracy out there before those theories would be proven false the entire basis of logical and rational discourse would collapse. Thus, in any reasonable conversation, participants should assume that crazy sounding ideas, are in fact crazy, until proven otherwise. And while I find your arguments interesting and thought provoking, they in no way prove the truth of your hypothesis. However, I will put forth one fact that may help to dispel the entire notion of an “ethnic bomb.” Any scientist involved with trying to create a targeted viral disease would also be smart enough to know it would NEVER work. Period. That is to say, anyone familiar with the nature of such diseases knows they are completely unpredictable once released into the general population where they immediately start to mutate. It’s a non-starter. However, there is one way to destroy a community if one is so inclined; institutionalize the idea that the individuals in that community are incapable of making it on their own. Tell them they are incapable of achievement with handouts or set asides. Create welfare systems that destroy families and the work ethic. Make them believe the greater society is out to get them, so they can justify not even trying. And should one of them try to break thru and join the larger community by home-work, hard-work and effort; tell them they are “acting-white”, or call them an “Uncle Tom.” That will surely destroy that community, because… it will destroy the soul of the individual who truly wishes to be free.

As for an ETHNIC DISEASE that has been or is in the process of being spread to a targeted ETHNIC GROUP the results are not out yet. AIDS was not a disease targeting one ethnic group in particular. It achieved its goal by wiping out those that were considered degenerates (sinners if you will). You started by saying that if skeptics were required to disprove every crazy conspiracy out there before those theories proven false the entire basis of logical and rational discourse would collapse. Personally I think you are using what is refered to as B/S to throw the facts out of the skillet and into the fire. I say a million thanks to the two doctors who followed through with their belief that they had stumbled across an epidemic. Not everything is discovered in the laboratories of Harvard, Yale, Vanderbilt and so on. And I thank them again for riding the ass of everyone who need to know about it to get up and get the word out(the white press) that there is a disease that is somehow infecting people and there is no appearant cure for it. And this disease is not to be taken lightly. BRAVO. GOOD WORK. HOORAY. Admit it or not the religious community did nothing but get in and stay in the way of progress to educate the populace. Remember this foolishness about abstenance was the ONLY way to prevent it? Never mind that fact that a condom was just as effective. Oh no. Not from them. Remember when it was Haitians who were the ones who were bringing it in the country? Very interesting how if that were the case then explain how white gay men who would not touch black gay men with a ten foot pole were coming down with it in droves? Next came GOD. It was god's wrath. Where else was left for them to go to blame it on? And lord knows don't even think of educating school children about it. It was a gay disease. Now you would be bringing homosexuality into the classroom. Oh no. Not that either.This mentality still remains in too many black churches. No sir Craig. It was not only predictable what the effects this disease was going to have when it WAS released into the targeted populace but also anyone caught in it out of these communities (gays, drug addicts, the homeless) amount to no more than collateral damage. With the technology avaiable since the late 50's it was not hard for a twisted minded biologist or biologists to get together and convince themselves that they were on a mission from GOD or the DEVIL or whoever or whatever motivated them to get this sick act started. Keep in mind that even though he was a devout mormon DR. Larry C. Ford was also a white racist who praised GOD while at the same time hated black people, stockpiled numerous firearms and whose views were well know by his congregation. As for the black community the welfare system no longer exists in th form it once did. Regardless of what race someone is everyone should be entitled to help in cases where some form of assistance is needed but not go on for year after year after year as it was doing. That had to stop and it seems you are not aware that it did. Like him or not it was Bill Clinton who signed it into law. (I can already hear your Hillary joke but if you want go ahead and send it). I think that the ex-cons who have served their time in prison should be given a second chance since the things that society is currently doing to them by denying them the chance to go forward becauseof their past is keeping them in nothing else but a revolving door. People who sit back and collect public assistance because they do not want to work deserve nothing but scorn. People who can not pick themselves up because of a bad mistake they made while younger and not knowing any better deserve nothing else but a second chance. They are placed in a position of helping the PRISON INDUSTRY NOT ONLY STAY IN BUSINESS BUT REMAIN HIGHLY PROFITABLE. PRISONS ARE THE LIFELINE OF TOO MANY RURUAL WHITE COMMUNITIES THAT WOULD BE TOTALLY DEVASTATED IF THE LOCAL PRISON WERE TO CLOSE. Incase you did not know it the stock of the companies who run prisons for the states are doing very well despite the economoy in a downturn. You go research why and at whose expense. Again nice hearing from you.

I'm a 48 year old white guy Wake up America it's not about “descended from” It's about "I'm still here" "I'm still alive" "I couldn't eat in the restaraunt" "I couldn't ride in the front of the bus" "I couldn't drink out the fountain" Let's face it Jim Crow's obit was recently written We have a long ways to go But I think we'll get there But please don't pretend we're talking ancient history I'm only 48 and I went to segragated schools up till 5th grade We've only recently stopped kicking these people Don't be suprised by the bruises still showing Pat is a racist Plain and simple

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