Rev. Wright diagnosed with Jealous Negro Syndrome

That is an interesting proposition.

I imagine how it can hold some weight considering how many of our leaders would want and often do want to protect their own legacies at some really high social cost. The case of Robert Mugabe is some classic example of that. It's also the fear of change within a national discourse which may entail loss of political relevance.

Wright has the individual right to speak whatever he wants to speak, am just not sure if he is adequately mindful of the broader public impact his exercise of that individual right may have. The sacrifice of self for a bigger public gain is also a strong attribute of sound and insightful leadership.

Here's what I don't get. Why wouldn't they WANT this. Wouldn't Dr. King, Rev. Joseph Lowery, and others want our generation to do better than they did and build on their work? I think so.

I want my little brother to be more successful than me (I have told him so on many occasions) and I certainly want the next generation to build on our work, and will applaud all efforts to do so as long as their efforts are positive.

Face it: we here, we're doing our thing, and we aren't going anywhere...with or without their support.

Keli Goff writes a great article and comments,

“Discussions of a generational divide within Black America tend to cover cultural differences....”

Your Black American culture needs to season, needs to mature, needs to unite and needs to be of one mind. Black America would rather not discuss your "crabs in a barrel" and would rather not discuss Black America is a stereotypical Anglo-Saxon culture dyed black by Mother Nature. Your Black American culture displays all the attributes typical of White America and mine is not to be taken as insult rather mine is to be taken as observation from one of a seamless culture, a culture set apart from all other cultures.

Your Black America is searching for roots. My Red America has roots buried deep into the very earth beneath our feet and beneath our country.

We American Indians have many ceremonies which are of a nature so scared we do not allow any but our own peoples to participate in those ceremonies and to observe those ceremonies. There are many reasons for keeping some of our sacred ceremonies private and those reasons are beyond the scope of my article and beyond the comprehension of the many.

There is a ceremony of historic fame and is a ceremony sorely misunderstood by the many. This is a ceremony of passing a peace pipe. There was a time we shared this ceremony with Anglos and this sharing proved both a mistake and proved to play a part in the most horrific genocide of all written history; the genocide of my red peoples. We were slaughtered by the tens of millions.

We do not "smoke" a peace pipe. We hold high a burning peace pipe to the four points of the wind to honor those major spirits about us. We pass a peace pipe amongst a tribal council to make agreement we will discuss only select issues, to make agreement we will be truthful and to make agreement we will be of one mind. Passing of a peace pipe signals we are of one mind and we will both support and abide by decisions made by a council, decisions which benefit all of our tribe rather than benefit the few. Our truth is to acknowledge will we agree and we will disagree but the final outcome will be a compromise which benefits all of our peoples, a compromise based upon truthfully spoken words free of individual interest and free of individual ego.

Our peoples' mistake in passing a peace pipe with Anglos is we assumed those outside of our culture would honor and respect our tradition of bound truthfulness. Our mistake is not realizing people outside of our culture are incapable of being of one mind. For this reason, we keep many of our sacred ceremonies within our red culture; outsiders cannot understand, cannot be of one mind.

Your Black America needs to set roots in the very earth beneath our feet, rather than elsewhere. You need to establish traditions unique to America and unique to your peoples. Your Black America needs pass a peace pipe and needs to truly believe in this sanctity of being of one mind. Until your culture seasons, until your culture matures, until your culture becomes a true tribe whose only interest is the benefit of all peoples of your tribe, until your Black America learns to sincerely pass a peace pipe, your culture will remain Mother Nature's dyed black ill fitting pieces of a never completed puzzle known as White America.

English is not my native tongue. There are times our English language inflicts much pain upon my tongue but I tolerate this pain so I may communicate truthfully and with understanding, with other cultures. I am sure there are times your tongue suffers the same pain inflicted by your being truthful.

Yours is excellent commentary, Keli. You are to be commended for your being candid and for your being truthful. You would make a good American Indian.

Yakoke ohoyo isht lusachi. Thank you black dye woman.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Keli Goff, you have said it all and summed it up well. All those who are supporting HRC, as is their right are having the same metal issue, jealous, which is indeed a scary thing to have in 2008 when McCain and HRC could care less about anything that affects black America, or any other shade of America. The want to keep that old school system in place, and are running boo that they will be seen for what they are, more destructive to the black community than anything else, that goes for Wright, Tubbs-Jones, Bob Johnson, Jackson-Lee and the rest of that ilk, who are looking out only for themselves and what they can get off the taxpayer and into their pockets and their cronies.

Thank you very much for your article Keli. Contributions from young black people like you are why I enjoy reading this site everyday.

Jealous Negro Syndrome is the correct phrase to use. It hits the nail squarely on the head. An Ivy league school graduate. Elected to the senate by beating the crap out of an obvious step and fetchit negro (Alan Keyes) that the republicans found to run against him because no white male or female could be found. Married to a black woman and has two beautiful daughters to boot. And supported by a very large majority of whites until this pastor puts on his minstrel show. Yes Ol'Rev. Wright had plenty to be jealous of.

What Rev. Wright and Maya Angelou did was a disgrace. This woman can not point to one black male politician that she has gone out on the limb for. She peddled her own as well as the wares (ex-madame)of other black women to black and white males and never apologizes for taking their money. Maybe she was robbed by a black male or something else happened and has yet to come to surface to explain her obvious contempt for black males. She and others like her will die lying if they say that in their lifetime one did not come along that showed the black male can make good by studying hard and with hard work.

I hope all sales her babbling trash comes to a screeching halt because of this. I also wish the same for Rev. Wright no doubt soon to be published book.

I also hope that the ignoramus out on the reservaton will stick to pro Hillary sites and stop looking for arguments with intelligent black people on this one.

IS JERIMIAH WRIGHT, “WRONG”?

Now that Pastor Jeremiah Wright’s sermons are being given live national coverage by the media,I would like him to raise the Iran – Contras affair in which it was alleged that planeloads of arms were smuggled from the U.S. to the Contras in Nicaragua and these very planes used to return full of cocaine which were “sold” to drug dealers in black ghettoes.This money was then passed on to dissident groups in Iran. This gave rise to the “crack epidemic”.
How many afro-american lives have been ruined as a result of this clearly racial act!
To address this and other race matters, I would suggest the setting up of a South Africa style Truth Commission.
In this way closure can be obtained and we can all move on. It’s about time that we do this.
Kindly publish my e-mail as I would like to hear from fellow subscribers on this matter, please.
Thanks in anticipation.

Malcolm Wint- Brazil
E-mail: malcolm2307@yahoo.com.br

Thanks Kelli.

When I watched the PBS interview with Bill Moyers on Friday night, I was really impressed by Rev. Wright. I didn't know that he served in the military or anything else in his background. I did not know that he tended to Lyndon Johnson when he had surgery. I was thinking that the moderators of the ABC debate might owe the Rev an apology for questioning his love of America and patriotism.

By Sunday evening, I saw Rev. Wright make a complete ass of himself on Cable TV. By Monday (National Press Club), I told my husband, that he was just jealous of Obama. My hubby hoped to think otherwise, but I said to him , why else would an intelligent man like Rev. Wright come out the way he did.

This reminds me of when Malcolm X broke with the Nation of Islam. We all the know the rest of that sad story.

Sister, that was an excellent diagnosis,and the cure to the crabs in the barrel syndrome is being dealt with by time but, here's the catch 22.

The icons representing the "crabs in the barrel mentality" are now impotent in leadership or are are dying out leaving the young generation in control and yet the young generation waste time, energy,money and effort holding leadership conferences searching for leadership, wisdom and guidance from the same people that are now impotent in leadership, dying out and suffering from "crabs in the barrel syndrome."

My question is what are you young educated African Americans going to do about moving the black race out of 4th place on the evolutionary food chain?

African Americans are in 4th place at a time when there is only enough natural resources of land, minerals, food and water for 1st and 2nd place to strategy over with 3rd place trying hard to move into 2nd place.

China is in 1st place, Europeans 2nd place, Spanish players 3rd place and The African Americans are in 4th place.

You have your youth, education, Internet and one of your own on the front line running for president of the United States Of America.

What are you young, bright, educated, political savvy African Americans going to do? What's the plan? What's the strategy?

Leave brother Wright to us, we know his history and he is not a problem when you consider all you young, bright, educated, political savvy, 6 figure earning, African Americans have going for you.

Stop beating up on the old man. Leave the old man be and go get us the Presidency of the United States of America.

Use what you have and go take what you want.

Sincerely
Enoch Mubarak
www.mubarakinter-prizes.com

Dr. Carter G. Woodson stated in the "Mis-Education of the Negro, “If you can control a man's thinking you do not have to worry about his actions. If he has been trained to go to the back door and upon arriving at the back he find no door, he then will make a back door.”

Keli, you have expressed something that i have had at the back of my mind for a while and feared putting it out there. As a matter of fact, that discussion came up this weekend when i was hanging out with some of my friends. It is always those that are closest to you that are fighting for your downfall. I wan't to go on a leap of faith that Rev. wright was operating from a different place.
Next year whoever gets the nomination(Barack or Hilary), it is imperative they move the country to a different direction which is SERIOUSLY needed.

I read Keli's article, and glanced at some of the responses. It appears that most of the responders agree with Keli. I'm not here to disagree, but I do want us--as I am one of the "new generation" attending the privileged schools--to be careful before we jump to the crabs in a barrel argument.

Let's not be duped by White America--specifically the mainstream media (sorry, Keli)--into believing the hype. Rev. Wright didn't ask to be thrust into the spotlight. Somebody's campaign decided that Barack might be able to pull this thing off, so they decided to play the low-down, dirty "race" card.

Rev. Wright sat idle for quite some time, before he showed up on BILL MOYERS' JOURNAL. Yes, he showed up there FIRST. You had better believe that there was no fair media coverage of that interview, where Rev. Wright flawlessly executed an insightful interview in which he defended his reputation and never uttered one seemingly unpatriotic remark. Instead, the media chose to go with the soundbites from the NAACP and National Press Club appearances (and both of those appearances were scheduled pre-YouTube campaign exposure, right?).

If you listen to Rev. Wright and you pay attention to Black Liberation Theology, you will find that Rev. Wright's message is very consistent in all of his appearances. And, I would dare say that his message is synonymous with the messages the Dr. King delivered later in his civil rights leadership.

We might need to be careful in being deceived to think that we are a monolithic people. There is room in America for Barack and Rev. Wright. Actually, we need both of them to speak their messages. Barack needs to call for an honest conversation about the effect that unresolved White-Black relations have had on our country, and we need the Prophet Jeremiah to decry the White supremacy that seeks to perpetuate itself in this country and around the world.

I guess I beg to differ with this jealous negro syndrome on Rev. Wright's part. His message has been consistent since the day he started his church, since Oprah left, and since Barack left. For political gain (or ruin, depending upon your perspective), Rev. Wright's messages were broadcast to the world in a negative manner. Whether you agree with his message or not, you have to agree that he didn't seek this stage. He's simply defending his profession and his message; as well, he is speaking encouragement to the thousands who have been empowered by the message that has flowed out of Trinity for years now.

I simply ask that we begin to view this thing a little bit more critically. I hate to say it, but we might be projecting this "crabs in a barrel" mentality onto the wrong person. We might need to ask how we got in the barrel and who benefits from our staying there?

Purl Gurl that was a such a high cultural horse you rode so shamelessly.

I am a 100% sure there are a lot of problems with and within the Red culture much like there are with, say the Aboriginies in Australia. Black American culture has it's burdens too. And so does white America.

It is bizarre to believe that just because a culture is 'burried beneath one's foot' it has instrinsically superior values.

What you most likely forget is that culture is only an extention of a 'people'. You can't possibly say you are a better person than Keli Goff who is black.

Are you for real? agh never mind.

Everett, I really don't think I could add much because you expressed my sentiments word for word.

You are correct. Wright sat idle for almost 7 weeks while his reputation and church was under attack. He didn't "jump the gun" and decide to get his "15 minutes." The Moyer interview was a great interview that received absolutely no coverage in the media--none. Instead they focused on his speech at the NAACP event and the NPC show.

I do not see a reason that Wright would be jealous of Obama when he seems to have zero interest in politics. Jealously denotes that Obama is doing something that Wright wants to-or at least stop Obama from doing. That begs the question, what is it? I could see if you were talking about Andrew Young but Rev. Wright?

I thought he gave a 'memorable' performance at the NPC and as foolish as it may seem to some, he was a pastor in the puplit taking questions and kicking asses at the same.

What's compelling to me about this whole brouhaha is that he repeated the same things we gave him a pass on saying back when this story first broke. He didn't change his message. He simply repeated it.

The fact of the matter is that the media didn't like his "delivery" in responding to the questions. As a result, black people now see Wright as Judas.

I guess any way the wind blows is cool with us.

What an insightful and thought provoking article. Thanks for writing it!

What an insightful and thought provoking article. Thanks for writing it!

Xavier and Everett,

You are right. Wright is right about many things he said. However, it's not only the content of our messages that counts it's also how we package them.

To me the biggest difference between Obama and Wright is in the tone and vision. Being justifiably angry and accusatory but too clouded to offering much solutions to America's problems is the core of Wright's message. And Obama is on the other hand reconcilliatory in tone and visionary is solutions.

Another similar example is the difference in the message and tone of a young Nelson Mandela in 1961, who whipped such frenzy and called for an armed struggle against the white regime in South Africa, compared to the reconcilliatory message he brought after close to 30 years imprisoned. The messages were different even the same facts of the reality were articulated. But the latter message of reconcilliation was by far more powerful and beneficial.

The irony here though is that O'bama is young and Wright is old. White hair literally being not the symbol of wisdom. That's how I also thought of Mugabe, whose message especially about neo colonialism is actually on point, but his solutions (or their lack) are disastrous.

That's why O'bama is special.

As an elderly civil rights activist, younger people often are unaware of the great discripancies in the opportunities available in the years of yore. Even a whippersnapper mental health professional pointed out to me my obvious paranoia claiming that I should have had a much more advanced standing given my accomplishments.

I am indeed happy that people can benefit from their accomplishments today. At the same time today's beneficiaries often lose sight of their benefits are the results of the great efforts of their "loser" predecessors.

When does this circus end??

Anonymity-

Thanks for your response. I'm not sure that I really get it though...or maybe I do.

It sounds like you believe that the packaging, the vision, and tone of the message matters. Regardless of who is delivering the message (Wright or Obama), the delivery matters. I believe that I agree with you.

Here's where I get a little bit concerned. Wright is a Black pastor shepherding a Black church in Chicago. His leadership and his church focus on empowering (Black) people from a strengths-based, Black perspective. In really simple terms, he uses packaging, tone, and vision that appeals to a cross-section of Black people. He is certain about his call to the ministry, and he is doing that ministry to the best of his ability. Now that someone has decided to elevate him to the national stage--without his consent--, is it fair to criticize him for what has been working in his role as a pastor of a local congregation for more than 30 years.

What's more...when Wright packaged his message with a tone and a vision that might seem more palatable to a national audience (i.e. White folks) on Bill Moyers Journal, no one gave that any critical or credible publicity. NO ONE!

I think that I am most confused by the notion that the way Wright packages his message has to be tailored in a way that is consistent with Barack Obama's way. Again, we are not monolithic people. Historically, there has always been a Malcolm X on the stage with MLK,Jr. There has always been a WEB DuBois present where Booker T Washington is. WE (i.e., BLACK FOLK) should be careful about getting involved with the debate about packaging our message so that it is OK with the masses. And, by the way, any preacher of the gospel who tries to make the vision, tone, and package appealing to the masses is not doing the job of the prophet/preacher/teacher.

Making it nice and pretty is the president's job. But wait, Bush and Cheney don't really care what people think, and they say it quite often. I digress...

While I appreciate the content of what you communicate about Nelson Mandela's transformation while in prison for speaking the truth, I'm not sure that it does us any good. A part of the moral of that story is if you speak the truth in a way that those in power don't like, you could go to jail. Is that really the mentality that we can afford to have. If so, we should not expect much to change in our country.

Again, we need both Obama and Wright out there with their messages. We'll all be better off as a result.

Everett,

I understand most of your concerns. I too think every voice has a contribution. But I also think some voices have a bigger contribution.

First, yes packaging and tone THAT IS ALWAYS RECONCILLIATORY is very important for me. What I hate most is the schezophrenia prevelant when racial groups have a language and topic for their dinner tables which are different from every day life. We can have two messages or even two tones of messages if we are true. That's how you describe Wright's differing messages for different audiences.

I dont understand how Wright being a pastor gives him the right to be NON reconcilliatory in tone at a small or a grand scale? Isn't Bishop Tutu in similar shoes. By far Tutu speaks the message I prefer. With greater positive impacts. And yet I dont even do church. So being a pastor has nothing to do with this.

Besides, should not a preacher by CALLING teach a UNIVERSAL message of love, forgiveness and reconcilliation, etc. As opposed to motivate by anger, however justifiable. I thought that's what Jesus Christ did.

Everett,

I understand most of your concerns. I too think every voice has a contribution. But I also think some voices have a bigger contribution.

First, yes packaging and tone THAT IS ALWAYS RECONCILLIATORY is very important for me. What I hate most is the schezophrenia prevelant when racial groups have a language and topic for their dinner tables which are different from every day life. We can have two messages or even two tones of messages if we are true. That's how you describe Wright's differing messages for different audiences.

I dont understand how Wright being a pastor gives him the right to be NON reconcilliatory in tone at a small or a grand scale? Isn't Bishop Tutu in similar shoes. By far Tutu speaks the message I prefer. With greater positive impacts. And yet I dont even do church. So being a pastor has nothing to do with this.

Besides, should not a preacher by CALLING teach a UNIVERSAL message of love, forgiveness and reconcilliation, etc. As opposed to motivate by anger, however justifiable. I thought that's what Jesus Christ did.

Everett,

I understand most of your concerns. I too think every voice has a contribution. But I also think some voices have a bigger contribution.

First, yes packaging and tone THAT IS ALWAYS RECONCILLIATORY is very important for me. What I hate most is the schezophrenia prevelant when racial groups have a language and topic for their dinner tables which are different from every day life. We can have two messages or even two tones of messages if we are true. That's how you describe Wright's differing messages for different audiences.

I dont understand how Wright being a pastor gives him the right to be NON reconcilliatory in tone at a small or a grand scale? Isn't Bishop Tutu in similar shoes. By far Tutu speaks the message I prefer. With greater positive impacts. And yet I dont even do church. So being a pastor has nothing to do with this.

Besides, should not a preacher by CALLING teach a UNIVERSAL message of love, forgiveness and reconcilliation, etc. As opposed to motivate by anger, however justifiable. I thought that's what Jesus Christ did.

dearest dear editor,

please fix the submission function. repeated message packaging is a bit psychotic...

Anonymity, we've strayed a bit from the point of the article "Jealous Negro" but I'm cool with that.

The problem wasn't Wrights' packaging of his message. It is how the media packaged his message. He didn't say anything new that wasn't looped for many weeks now.

As noted, his Moyer interview was as demonstrative as it could get. The media did not see a need to package it in a positive way. In fact, they didn't cover it at all. If you have the opportunity to look at ALL of his sermons, speeches etc. on these matters, you will see where he reconciled, preached a universal love and understanding.

That's not what the media is interested in which explains why many people don't know he did.

This so-called analysis is so symplistic it's shocking.
Does Goff and her ilk really believe that they are the first generation of successful black folks who are intellectually competitive???
Black folks have had intellectually competitive folks for generations. The only difference is that those generations did not have the OPPORTUNITY to attend some of these institutions and work in some of these positions. And these opportunities were created by the very same people that she now so gleefully dismisses as "crabs". Those crabs stood up to fire hoses, dogs and billy clubs so that smarty pants like Keli Goff can write her crappola.
I've read her book and when you look at her background qualifying her as a political analyst, it is paper thin when you look at her real involvement in politics. Talk about an affirmative action baby!
What makes the "old guard" mad is not that the Obamas of the world are enjoying some level of success, but that they act like they're the first smart Negroes to come along and give no credence to those who sacraficed so mightily for them to be able to reach where they have reached.

I'm the Chair of the HIV/AIDS Ministry at Trinity.
What people don't know is that Rev. Wright started an AIDS Ministry in 1993, a long time before other churches decided to fight this battle. We at Trinity hear from the pulpit about HIV/AIDS and get full support from our Pastoral staff. In December of 2007 for World AIDS Days we tested all the Pastoral staff in the pulpit at all three services. Our late Chair Mr. Anthony Hollins made this a reality before his untimely death. We stand with our Senior Pastor Rev. Wright and our Pastor Otis Moss III and all the members at Trinity United Church of Christ. When you work for the Lord the devil will all ways keep busy.

Dear Xx, Thanks for the media spin factor awareness. We would say some media loop-aired the Wright rhetoric soley to destroy Obama, or to at least make the nomination process more interesting. I buy that. So it would explain how come I have not heard much of Wright teaching a message of reconcilliation anywhere else. I agree.

Well, since I dont know this man's other side, I sure hope he does preach a primarily different message (mostly in tone) compared to what I've seen of him. Although I'd still worry about his bi-facetness.

To Nat Turner Ghost. I must say that I am also almost always shocked about how accurately brilliant some simple ideas can be... This may include Goff's.

But could you write about what you think is actually flawed with her proposition. I am not sure I reject it as yet.

To me it does seem like you are not very happy that Goff has benefited from affirmative action? Why? And that you FEEL the Obamas do not pay respect and credence to the 'old guard'. How should this be done? And why should it be done if the sacrifices were sincerely selflessly offered. Does the 'old guard' feel like they are being owed a lot of favours? That's what I hear from the likes of Mugabe who basically owns a country now. Maybe THAT is what is problematic. Also feels like a really bad parental expectation, doesn't it?

Anonymity-

What exactly does Rev. Wright have to be reconciliatory about? If you are referring to the message of reconciliation that Jesus offered, then I agree with you. I would only caution that Jesus was all about having people repent for their transgressions before there was reconciliation. All of the Old Testament prophets delivered a message of reconciliation to God's chosen people, but that message was always accompanied by an imperative to confess wrongs and seek forgiveness before reconciliation could actually take place.

What does that mean for this current conversation? In the media clips that have been used to depict Rev. Wright, his message has been one of exposing the very things that America (you can include in that whomever you want; I choose to say those in positions of authority and power) needs to repent for. Then, and only then, will there be reconciliation.

As well, I'm not sure if you are a person of Color, but I don't think there are too many people of Color in this country who don't have a double consciousness about them. What do I mean? We learn at an early age that in order to play "the game" in America, it becomes necessary to learn how to speak the language of America. That's what Rev. Wright did in the Bill Moyers interview. We also have no qualms about holding onto the language and tone that is most easily understood in our homes, at our dinner tables, in our barber shops, and at our churches. That's what you are hearing in the clips on the national news.

Why the two languages? Well, I think it's safe to assume that America is experienced differently by different racial groups. Those different experiences contribute to different languages. For example, slaves and slavemasters both prayed to God. You had better believe that they were praying different prayers. Black folk, then and now, recognize that there are certain things that might not be appropriate for mixed raced groups; sometimes not even appropriate for same race groups, as some people of Color tend to identify mostly with White people. Having multiple languages is a matter of survival.

When we get into a place where America can repent for her sins, we can then begin to move toward reconcilation and having one language.

Anonymity-

What exactly does Rev. Wright have to be reconciliatory about? If you are referring to the message of reconciliation that Jesus offered, then I agree with you. I would only caution that Jesus was all about having people repent for their transgressions before there was reconciliation. All of the Old Testament prophets delivered a message of reconciliation to God's chosen people, but that message was always accompanied by an imperative to confess wrongs and seek forgiveness before reconciliation could actually take place.

What does that mean for this current conversation? In the media clips that have been used to depict Rev. Wright, his message has been one of exposing the very things that America (you can include in that whomever you want; I choose to say those in positions of authority and power) needs to repent for. Then, and only then, will there be reconciliation.

As well, I'm not sure if you are a person of Color, but I don't think there are too many people of Color in this country who don't have a double consciousness about them. What do I mean? We learn at an early age that in order to play "the game" in America, it becomes necessary to learn how to speak the language of America. That's what Rev. Wright did in the Bill Moyers interview. We also have no qualms about holding onto the language and tone that is most easily understood in our homes, at our dinner tables, in our barber shops, and at our churches. That's what you are hearing in the clips on the national news.

Why the two languages? Well, I think it's safe to assume that America is experienced differently by different racial groups. Those different experiences contribute to different languages. For example, slaves and slavemasters both prayed to God. You had better believe that they were praying different prayers. Black folk, then and now, recognize that there are certain things that might not be appropriate for mixed raced groups; sometimes not even appropriate for same race groups, as some people of Color tend to identify mostly with White people. Having multiple languages is a matter of survival.

When we get into a place where America can repent for her sins, we can then begin to move toward reconcilation and having one language.

I appreciate the honesty in which you wrote about that double conciousness.

Well, I know for real that a number of white americans also have many languages they speak.

Closet racists, especially, speak pure PC in public and vile racism with close friends and families.

That is a double consciousness too.

Personally, I think this is schezophrenic. And nothing to be proud of. Especially not when you are a grown up man - with children, it's worse.

I always prefer to deal with overt racism face on, than subtle discrimination or calculated covert rejection. With undisguized hatred and the ground-rules made clear, I have more respect for any recist. That is a preference.

Similarly I have, by far, more respect for black gay men who are NOT on the DL. For me, that's a true measure of manhood. Basically only if you are prepared to die for who or what you are, you can expect me to take you seriously, at any level.

But as far as this racism & homophobia dance of deceit plays itself out in the US, I have no first hand experience. I am not an american.
I dont think however that you can be killed for being black in America today.

As for homophobia, by far there are worse places in the world. So...

I am black and I am gay in another country also charecterized by white domination in most socio-economic spheres with severe homophobia in black communities. But out of hard preference making, I do not have the two languages any more. I think of this as having grown up a bit.

People anyway always always always know when you are pulling wool over their eyes. Our animalistic instincts remain.

And from these instincts I can see that Obama speaks from a place of a very consistant sincererity. That's what makes him special.

Thanks for your feedback, Anonymity. Your statement, "I dont think however that you can be killed for being black in America today," speaks volumes about the uniqueness of living Black in America. Check our daily news, and you'll see that your statement is so untrue.

At any rate, I found a very interesting rebuttal of sorts to this whole piece about Wright and the jealous negro syndrome.

http://www.theroot.com/id/46329
"Did Obama betray Wright first?"

Thanks for your feedback, Anonymity. Your statement, "I dont think however that you can be killed for being black in America today," speaks volumes about the uniqueness of living Black in America. Check our daily news, and you'll see that your statement is so untrue.

At any rate, I found a very interesting rebuttal of sorts to this whole piece about Wright and the jealous negro syndrome.

http://www.theroot.com/id/46329
"Did Obama betray Wright first?"

Thanks for your feedback, Anonymity. Your statement, "I dont think however that you can be killed for being black in America today," speaks volumes about the uniqueness of living Black in America. Check our daily news, and you'll see that your statement is so untrue.

At any rate, I found a very interesting rebuttal of sorts to this whole piece about Wright and the jealous negro syndrome.

http://www.theroot.com/id/46329
"Did Obama betray Wright first?"

Nat Turner's Ghost,

It would have been to see you not base your post on the "ungratefulness" of our generation. No one misunderstands the struggles of our forefathers.

Honestly, your post sounds like that of someone who is jealous. Jealous that Obama did not have to solicit your blessing to get to where he is.

Anonymity> If you are interested in finding out more about Wright most of his sermons are available online. You can also find his talk of reconciliation on both the Moyer interview and the National Press Club press conference.

The tone of his sermons are quite familiar to many african-americans in this country. It harkens us back to the whole "fire and brimstone" days of preaching.

Everett,

Thank you for your insightful and thought-provoking contributions to this discussion. I have enjoyed reading your posts and you have given me much to ponder.

As I have recently become active in the debate of reparations for African Americans (more specifcially I am trying in my own small way to help garner support for Rep. John Conyers bill H.R. 40 for the establishment of a study, etc. for reparations), I was most impressed with your response to Anonymity regarding repentence and reconciliation. As a preacher's daughter (a preacher who loved and continues to love studying the Old Testament), I would add only one more element to your statement, and that would be restitution. Not only did the OT prophets' message speak of repentance and reconcilliation, God himself required that restituion be made for wrongdoings (see Leviticus for example). If you stole a sheep from your neighbor, not only were you required to return that sheep, but you were to also give that neighbor four more, interest if you will. America needs to not only acknowledge and repent for her wrongdoings against African Americans, there must also be restitution before there can be any hope of reconciliation. We deserve the same consideration as Native Americans and Japanese Americans. Although I'm not sure exactly what form of restitution is appropriate (I for one do not believe that issuing everyone a check is the way to go), this is what I truly believe is hindering reconciliation between America (and by America I'm using your definition) and African Americans.

Having said all this, I know that the problems we face are not quite as simplistic as my post may suggest. However, I'm trying in my own small way to be a part of the solution.

Thank you for your consideration of my two cents.

God bless.

Everett,

You are right. I am really far off the mark there.

I actually know that black young men, especially, die on a daily basis in america. One statistic estimated an average black men's life expectancy at 36 yrs old in 2003 in black ghettos. This was lower than Bangladesh's. I was shocked. So my brain was off when I wrote that sentence.

However without being pedantic I am still not sure whether this is a daily experience of an average black man? Do you feel black life on average or your quality of life specifically is worse than in some least developed countries? The are people here who have argued that life in America for black people was actually much better than in many other places, hence they are proud americans (refer to the post: When I realised I was American )

Besides, even if racism did equal death for an average black person, the same way that homophobia equaled death for me, that does not change my argument that we should speak truthfully and at all times. Also this double consiousness is not particular to black people, it is also practiced by bigoted white racists, and other sub-cultures. My feeling is that the practice is being deceitful, far from being brave. In fact it may even be a collective mental condition for any group practicing.

But like I said before, this is only my preference, by no means a prescription. I am not in yours or anyone else's shoes.

I have not given enough thought to your proposal for a need to repent before reconciliation is considered and to Tina G's expansion of it to include restitution.

Although I would still wonder if the expectation for a public declaration of guilt and repentance, then restitution by and from white amarica was ever a realistic possibility. The Austrialian government made some token gesture to the Aboriginues early this year. I was moved. But some people protested it was far from being sincere, never mind - enough.

In fact, here I am not sure which 'definition' of justice would be most realistic and practical other than the old testament's.

kindly

Xx

Just so that you're clear, I am a member of this generation and I voted for Senatoar Obama in my state's Presidential Primary.
So this is not about Barrack coming to me for a "blessing". But the truth is that both Barrack and I have had the same blessing. I attended college and graduate school so I have nothing to be jealous of. But unlike many of your shallow buppie cohorts, I'm not vapid enough to believe that I got there all by myself.
I'm grounded enough to realize that I'm blessed by the courage and sacrifice of the civil rights generation who opened doors in this society that would not have been opened as quickly otherwise.

a note on repentance/reconciliation and retribution

The question of justice is really a normative one. It is about beliefs, hence the references to Jesus Christ by me and to the Old Testament by some. It is a question similar to: what makes a human being happy? Now I have a number of beliefs regarding what is fair. I do believe that to truly move forward and to forgive and be forgiven there has to be an acknowledgement from both sides of the wrongs of the past. These acknowledgments can be in the form of public hearings. This is TRUTH before RECONCILIATION. I think once both sides have voiced ‘their’ truth in the spirit to reconcile on past differences, for me that is enough. This truth is also subjective and I can’t imagine that it would contain the same facts from both sides. What is important, however, is for the parties (especially perpetrators) to acknowledge the impact e.g. pain (as voiced out by victims) the perpetrators’ actions have caused. To see and acknowledge the impact. This does not mean taking all the responsibility for all the impacts on the victim, but acknowledging the truth as viewed from the victims’ side, however distorted it may seem. That is an important sign of respect and for me an enough and practical condition to allow reconciliation.
The idea of Repentance before Reconciliation has many subjective conditions attached to it. So I have a number of technical problems with it. For instance, what is the meaning of repentance in this context. In the biblical context, I assume, it means changing a religion. I don’t support this.
I think you can have your beliefs and religion but acknowledge mine by not practicing yours in ways that offend my beliefs and vice versa. We can negotiate the boundaries by creating a nation state and setting up a legally binding constitution. From then the respect of the constitution means acknowledging our different beliefs and religions. Not repentance, if this means changing to share the same beliefs.
So, in the case of black/white America I think the government must promote the work of reconciliation. Firstly, because there already is a nation state. And also because the bulk number of the most grievous atrocities were committed in the past. The government’s work towards reconciliation has to be acknowledged through national legislation and constitution. Setting up monuments to publically acknowledge the past , revamping legislation to redress the effects of the past, e.g. via affirmative action, other redistributionary measures would be the role of the state as influenced by government thinking. Ultimately, anyone who does not respect the all the laws and the constitution would be going against this public reconciliation –with penalties in place.
It seems getting hold of the government as an instrument to be used for practical purposes of reconciliation is NB at this point. Which is to create respect among different races and other groupings without imposing homogeneity of one ‘religion’. That is why it appears to me that part of what Obama is doing is getting hold of the government machinery and proposes to use it for reconciliation. As opposed to retribution, which seems closely related to the idea of old testament repentance. And the idea of ‘monetary’ restitution is an expansion of retribution. I don’t believe in this as the right course plus I don’t think it is practical to enforce. It is a recipe for building up resentments and it is impossible to value in monetary terms the impact and pain caused by actions such as slavery and systematic discrimination. The public acknowledgment needs to come from a new legislative regime and rewrite of the constitution. The redress needs to come from policies aimed at creating long term economic and social equality. Otherwise, the idea of retribution with subparts like repentance before reconciliation is and has always been the recipe for religion inspired wars.

kindly

Thank you Everett, I couldn't have put it any better! Black people learn to "think" before jumping on the band wagon!